The transcript below is from the video “WORST Self Defense GURU or GENIUS?.. D.U.S.T Broke the Internet!!!” by Fight SCIENCE.

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

Inside the mind of a genius, the self-defense guy, this guy’s blown up all over the internet but let’s be honest, the technique sucks. But there’s a reason for success, so keep watching. Unless you’ve had a wi-fi blackout for the last two months, you’ve awoken to a new world of Dale Brown. In fact, Commander Dale Brown.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

Who is now, yeah, famous more as the self-defense guy than he is as Dale Brown Commander in Chief of the Detroit Urban Threat Management System. Why is he the most viral internet superstar in self-defense at this point in time?

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

They’re even doing memes on him.

Came across this video and I literally spat my drink out while I was watching it.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

Yeah, I got a voice message from you immediately in tears laughing like, have you seen what I’m seeing right now?

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

We’ve got to watch it. We’ve got to do this video.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

Okay, so what do we do if we get shot Dale?

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“Detroit urban survival training we’re going to share with you today some ideas that can assist you in the event that you get shot. Push the barrel up, back towards the aggressor and you can actually use his finger to control them if you want to or strip the weapon from them. Whatever you do, remember, get the gun because the only thing worse than getting shot is getting shot again, repeatedly.”

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

If you’ve been shot…

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

Yeah, how to disarm someone when you’ve been shot point blank range in the chest, yeah.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

He has a point, getting shot twice is innumerably worse than getting shot once.

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

You can understand why people would be reacting to this type of information. You’re discussing being shot. My understanding, if I’ve been shot in the chest, it’s game over.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

Yeah, if I’m not dead, I’m actively dying. It feels like there’s a level of hyperbole here and that’s what people react on the internet most isn’t it? Extreme claims made in an extreme way is going to get people talking isn’t it?

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“The hand is not meant to hold anything very well. If I put my hand here, it could really come right out of the hand. That’s because the hand is not made to hold anything. Detroit Urban Survival training wants to share with you what to do if you’re surrounded by a group of men they attack you. So if they come at you, what you don’t want to do is try to stay in the middle like in a martial arts Karate movie, moving in a circle trying to fly, trying to hit, that’s not going to work. “

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

I would always say that you never want to allow people to surround you in the first place. You can’t allow yourself to be in the middle. If you’re faced with a group and you can identify the group, try to stand to one edge of the group, one side of the group. That’s a fact all the time.

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“So they try to grab and then try to attack you and you try to back up. This is what’s gonna happen. As you try to back up, you’re gonna get swarmed and you’re still gonna be… “

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

So the idea of starting that position is quite poor.

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“What you should do is this.”

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

Straight out of the circle.

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“And as you can see, when you’re moving a circle around the crowd, you’re able to attack each attacker individually.”

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

The tactic of trying to get out of that circle and move to the outside is spot on. I mean, I discuss it. I mean, I would say he’s probably taking it from one of my videos.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

I told you you had things in common.

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“Neither of these things will kill them but it will stop them from continuing to attack you.”

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

One of my videos to talk about circles online you want to do is get people lined up in front of you because they’re easier to deal with or you want to be on the outside of the circle. So basically, you never want to be in the middle of a circle but you want to create a line.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

So his theory is perfectly viable but where he’s demonstrating it, in such a sort of sterilized way, people immediately say, oh, that’s stupid. That’s not going to work. And of course, we’re not seeing him come up against full force attackers. I mean, they’re sort of like pushing your shoulders, touching him up there and that’s fine for a demonstration but people immediately go, how is this going to work in real life when people are actually trying to harm me. Immediately, the internet are going to have you for this because they’re going to say, look, we need to see this working in real life. But he’s responded and I like that he’s coming right back with…

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

Yeah, let’s go with his response then.

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“Today we’d like to address common comments we hear online and to do so, we brought in a translator of ignorant comments, Marcus. The first ignorant comment we would like to address is who certifies you and that’s easy – me. I created the system.”

Marcus:

“He did it for 26 years. If you like Chuck Norris, oh, it’d be cool, because you like Mark Gideon, it’s a problem.”

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“The next comment we would like to address is the statement “that training will get you killed”. But for the past 26 years, none of the thousands of people we’ve protected, none of the thousands of people on our team have been killed.”

Marcus:

“He’s right here, 26 years protecting me you dumb motherf*cker.”

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“A very common ignorant statement is – will you agree to support sparring? We’re a survival school, of course, not.”

Marcus:

“There are no referees in Detroit. We got the police that come after y’all ass is dead. We don’t tap out, we double tap, you don’t motherf*cker.”

Dale Brown (Founder of Detroit Urban Survival Training & the Detroit Threat Management Center):

“Remember, intelligent information decreases your ignorance and increases your survivability simultaneously.”

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

I like the fact that they are familiar with the internet. They’re giving as good as they get.

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

So what do we think? What’s the evaluation and takeaway from D.U.S.T? So, I think he has genuine intention to help people and “increase your survivability” and that’s his catch line to increase survivability. And you can’t knock anybody who wants to increase survivability for their community. That does lead to an issue of promoting false confidence.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

And that is what I see Mike said in his review of this. He said, look, in order to claim this guy’s getting people killed, you’d first need to assess multiple points, one of which was, if you had not followed his advice, would you not have died?

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

The pushback from this on the internet is basically people are saying if you’re going to follow this advice, you’re going to die. Hence, all the memes. If you’re putting out a 30 second clip on the internet and that’s inspiring someone to go and seek help, protection, or to learn how to protect themselves, that’s a positive thing and we shouldn’t knock that.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

No and that for me is the overarching point here that he is doing something positive.

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

And if that means that they look for someone that’s credible in their local area to teach them how to defend themselves, good on him.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

I’m on board with. That’s why I wear this jacket because it makes me feel like I look like I’m from D.U.S.T.

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

You look like you’re from D.U.S.T now. When you came in with that jacket, I thought, yeah, right.

Host (Fight SCIENCE):

I’ve already ordered the headpiece. It’s on its way. You wait, next week, headpiece.

Dr Mark Phillips (Criminal Psychologist, Security Consultant, Martial Arts & Defensive Skills Instructor):

Thanks for watching.